#reading mansfield park again

[cedarboots]

save fanny price 2k23

[bethanydelleman]

Henry Crawford:

Mary Crawford:

Mansfield Park memes, Ch 30

As soon as her eagerness could rest in silence, he was as happy to tell as she could be to listen; and a conversation followed almost as deeply interesting to her as to himself, though he had in fact nothing to relate but his own sensations, nothing to dwell on but Fanny’s charms. Fanny’s beauty of face and figure, Fanny’s graces of manner and goodness of heart, were the exhaustless theme.

[volcanicmudbubbles]

The grandmother at the end of Flannery O’Connor’s “A Good Man is Hard to Find” 🤝 the Bertrams after a decade with Fanny

in this essay I will

[gothamhappiness]

Being in a relationship with Bruce Wayne: a journey - Hi, Jason (Part V)

It's a big series about an afab!reader who doesn't like Bruce Wayne and who still falls in love with him (he fells quicker and harder)

Reader's origin story // Part 1 // Part 2 // Part 3 // Part 4

Warnings: no proof reading, Jason's relationships with Bruce and Dick are discussed, mentions of Joker, violence, death

You met with Dick again in a bookstore. At first, you thought that it was quite a strange coincidence, until you saw him trying to talk with a very big boy who didn’t seem very interested in talking with him. Dick appeared upset ; the other boy was just shrugging and trying to focus on the books in front of him. 

You hesitated to go to them; you didn’t want to intrude. You weren’t too sure to recognise the other boy, but his face somehow seemed familiar. What decided you was where they were standing: the classic literature aisle of the store. Which was what you were looking for when you entered the shop.

You thought you could just say hi and then leave them alone if your presence was annoying them. You carefully walked to them.

“Hey Dick” you greeted the boy who turned around and instantly smiled at you. 

You weren’t too sure if it was a real smile yet, so you didn’t come closer to him, but his answer showed he was actually glad to see you.

“Hey, Y/N! What are you doing here?” he asked

“Buying books I guess.” you teased “I was looking for Mansfield Park or Emma, now I finished Pride and Prejudice” you said. 

The big boy to whom Dick was trying to talk to, quickly turned around and looked you up and down. He watched you with curiosity sparkling in his green eyes. Dick took his chance before his brother could go back to the cover of the book he was holding.

“Y/N, this is Jason, my little brother. You seem to share the same taste in books” Dick introduced the two of them

“Hi, Jason” you smiled as you cautiously observed him, remembering who he was now you knew his name.

You remembered what you read about Bruce and his son “who came back from the dead” and all the headlines about “Bruce arguing with his adoptive son”. It had quite broken your heart at the time.

“You’re Bruce’s new girlfriend?” he asked you quite bluntly

“I hate titles and I hate to feel like a possession. But yes, I'm currently seeing Bruce.” you replied and Jason nodded “I’m surprised you heard about me.” you added. 

“Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. It's just that things are rocky with Bruce.” Jason said and you reassuringly smiled at him “And yeah, everyone is talking about you in the “family”. Dick and Tim said you were nice.” Jason explained his first coldness to you

“I understand; Bruce isn’t always easy and you don’t know me” you nodded

“Ah yeah?” Jason arched an eyebrow at you. 

He had expected you to take Bruce’s defence, like everyone else.

“Let’s say that I like challenges.” you smiled “And I’m not Bruce’s lawyer” you joked

“You should thank god for that, or you would have a lot of work” Jason grinned and you could tell Dick was quite happy about the current interaction.

“Can I buy the two of you a drink or something? Or a meal” you asked. “There is this sweet little café right outside the bookstore” you offered

You actually wanted to know more of them. Jason was curious about you so he agreed. Dick wanted to come as well, but he quickly received a call from Büdhaven. He reluctantly left the two of you together. Dick would have enjoyed some time with his brother too, but maybe you would help. If you helped with Bruce, he was certain you could do pretty much anything. At the same time, he really hoped Jason wasn’t going to scare you away from the family as a way to avenge himself.

But you knew better; you had met Red Hood before and you liked him.

You settled in the café. You started to talk about literature at first. You were both passionate so it was a good conversation starter. You gave each other some recommendations and debated on characters you liked or disliked. Your point of views on characters were often based on your experiences, so it naturally led to a conversion about each other’s lives. And of course, you arrived at the subject of Bruce Wayne.

“I’ll tell him to apologise to you. He shouldn’t have acted that way even if I do agree with the no killing rule” you said “You’re both right in a way, but… Bruce should have talked to you, he should have let you know what was going on with the Joker and why he couldn’t kill him. Why you couldn't kill him either. He should have been there to appease your anger, not the opposite” you said

“You’ll quickly learn that he doesn’t talk much. Especially not about his feelings. If it gets too personal, he’ll push the subject away. If it can hurt him, he’ll run away. He's a bad dad for that. And he might be a bad partner to you as well” Jason told you

“I’m sorry about what happened to you. It must have been so difficult to wake up without your family. And in a body you didn’t know. You did good, despite the murders and everything. Actually, Red Hood has always been my favourite vigilante” you admitted without commenting on the last part of Jason’s words. You wanted to believe that Bruce would make an effort for you.

Jason chuckled as you mentioned his vigilante persona.

“It’s true you never wrote anything bad about me. I thought you were scared of me… Until I realised we actually met” he teased, his eyes litting up

“Oh you remember? Yes I used to live in your territory, and now I’m nearby. I stand by what I said that night: I know what you did for people like us, that’s why I thanked you. Bruce can’t understand what it is to be poor and lost and to have to do bad things to survive. But I’ll make sure he does better with you.” you said “Just promise me to speak with Dick. Your brother looks like he is very eager to have you back in his life. He seemed very sorry you weren’t speaking with him earlier” you added

“I will try to talk with him again then. Thank you for… Thank you. I think I really needed to have this conversation with somebody but no one wanted to have it and I couldn’t really go to a therapist. You’re easy to talk with” he whispered, a little bit awkward

“I know” you smiled “I’m glad if I’ve been able to help”

“Is it your good action of the day to go to Heaven?” Jason joked 

“Absolutely” you giggled

A moment of comfortable silence engulfed the two of you. You both enjoyed your tea before you resumed talking:

“Hey you know what, this is my phone number. You can call or text me whenever you need it.” you offered

“Why?” Jason plunged his eyes onto yours. 

He was definitely not used of adults being there for him, especially without a catch

“Well I’m afraid I’m a family woman and my own family sucks very much. And since Bruce wants me around, I’d prefer it if I can get along with his people. I’d like to take care of you all.” you admitted, feeling a little shy to say all of this out loud.

Jason was also very easy to talk to.

“I don’t think I’m one of his people. Not anymore at least.” Jason sadly smiled at you

“You can be one of mine then. Take it as a repayment for allowing me to go back home every night without having to worry about anyone slicing my throat off” you insisted

“All the pleasure’s mine” he chuckled before saving your number onto his phone “You know, everyone says Bruce is nicer since you’re around. I have to admit this is true. Maybe happiness can truly change a man” 

“Even a bat?” you joked because Jason’s words were touching you a little more than you wanted to show it

“Even a bat” Jason nodded

A few days later, you received a message from Jason, clearly tasting the water with you.

J: Hey wanna go have some lunch together today or tomorrow?

You: Today sounds good :)

After this, you regularly had lunch together and Jason clearly started to see you as a motherly figure, and you saw him as a son. He crashed at your place more than once after patrol, so you could eat together. Bruce never commented on your relationship with Jason, but he heard you when you asked him to apologise.

Which he did.

Jason accepted it and tried his best with Dick and his other siblings. He was still feeling awkward around everyone, but he was slowly spending more time at the manor, even when Bruce was there. 

When Bruce asked if you wanted to meet all of his children anytime soon, you agreed but you instantly sent a message to Jason to make sure he would be there as well. He eagerly agreed because he couldn’t wait for you to be officially a member of the Batfamily.

--

PART 6

--

Taglist for all my work <3

@blublock404

@wind-canoe

@silverklaus

@couldeatthatgirlforlunch

Taglist for Bruce Wayne <3

@alishii

Taglist for this series <3

@Esposadomd

@moraxussy

@resident-cryptid

@legendarypiratecheesecake

@randomnamedmira

[bigmanroykent]

Does the fact that my copy of Dracula is this sexy do anything to sway your vote one way or the other

[kanencrow]

A Short Conversation - Shauna Shipman | One Shot

Summary: It was a common occurrence for you to wait for Shauna to get done with practice. By the time she’s all showered and ready to go, she finds you at your usual spot in the library, reading a book that you find yourself struggling to comprehend.

Warnings: Swearing.

A/N: All characters are 18+ by default. Here's another little piece of writing that I made a while back. It's nothing too long or extreme, just a short conversation between you and Shauna about books.

Word Count: 1700+

"You know she was only forty-one when she died?"

The chair beside you pulled out from its original position with a quiet squeak, interrupting the quiet atmosphere that the library had always been naturally consumed in, and with a tinge of endearment sparking inside of your chest at the familiar voice that hit your ears, the corner of your lip curled up into a miniscule smirk. You knew she was referring to the author of the book you were reading: Jane Austen. You knew to leave it to a certain brown-eyed bookworm to know all the lore behind someone or something she was fixated on.

"I... didn't know that," you eventually muttered, answering the open-ended question with a tone of appreciative understanding, before you internally pinpointed your spot in the book that you had rented for the evening and casually shifted your gaze to meet a pair of brown irises. The same pair that you had grown to lose yourself within every time you stared into them, "Hey, Shaunie," you murmured, keeping your volume low, just so Mrs. Fletcher wouldn't hear you and scold you again for 'being too loud,' according to her bat-like hearing.

With the way Shauna's slightly damp hair was still in a messy ponytail and she was sporting a slight blush on her cheeks, it wasn't difficult to detect that she had just come back from practice, which was why you had been sitting inside of the library after hours in the first place. She always took a shower in the locker room after every skirmish Coach Ben pushed onto her and the rest of the team that chose to stick around, and that made the time it took for her to meet up longer, but you didn't necessarily mind it. 

You remembered asking her once upon a time, inquiring why, and she stated how she didn't want to 'stink up her car,' as if her body odor was enough to act as some sort of encapsulating aroma that would linger, if it became trapped in the space of her fun-sized SUV. You and she both knew that her internalized fear couldn't realistically happen, but it was a valid argument nonetheless, and one you didn't feel the need to debate. Besides, you had been far more focused on the way her eyes shined happily in that moment, and how the dimples in her cheeks showed themselves to you like a personal gift, so it wasn't as though you were completely invested in the topic.

Kind of like now.

It felt like you had been staring at Shauna for an eternity, before you blinked back into reality and noticed that she had settled down from her quiet bout of amusement and nodded down towards the book that you had since rested against your thigh. "I see you're reading something different." Your thumb acted as the bookmark, with the way it nestled under the weight of all the pages you previously read. It was no longer an interest to you, however, because she was present, and so it wasn't difficult to hear her when she eventually spoke up again, as she leaned closer to you and scrutinized the paperback cover of the novel. 

"Mansfield Park?" she hummed out, a questioning tone to her voice, as her eyebrows rose in wonder. She was reading the name of the title, you mentally knew, deep down... somewhere inside of your distracted brain. Though even then, you found yourself unable to comprehend what she was referring to, which must have been apparent on her pallid features, the moment she raised her brown eyes up to meet yours and sent you a knowing expression. "How are you liking it so far?"

You felt awfully pathetic for lacking a basic attention-span when it came to her, though you were thankful you managed to answer her question without much of a hitch, when your eyes slightly widened, and you shifted your head down to stare at the cover of the book. "It's... interesting, to say the least," you admitted, before you pursed your lips and lifted your gaze to meet her own once more, which showed a clear emotion of intention and genuine interest towards what you had to say. 

It made you feel warm inside, even if you knew that the true reason as to why she was asking you about the story you were reading wasn't one without intention. "It's about this woman, named Fanny Price," you told her, explaining what you learned of the novel throughout the short span of time you had spent skimming through the pages, "she was sent to live with her asshole of an uncle, but I guess she's... making the most of it by delving into different romantic endeavors with the people around the town?"

You weren't entirely sure if you were understanding what you were reading. Then again, your ignorance made sense, considering you hadn't put in a valiant effort to figure out the plotline and writing style that was Jane Austen: one of Shauna Shipman's favorite authors. So, your tone was accurate when it came to conveying your confusion, and it caused the brunette to let out an amused huff, before she shook her head and promptly grabbed the paperback out of your hand with a gentleness that made you tolerant in letting it happen.

You watched her as she stared down at it for a few moments, delicate fingers tracing over the art on the paper cover. "Be honest," she started, her brown hues locking firmly with yours while she spoke and propped her brow up knowingly, "you're only reading this because I teased you the other day for consuming only horror books."

"It's not my fault I like suspenseful stuff," you hushed out, slumping your shoulders, as you attempted to defend your affinity towards horror novels. It only encouraged a teasing smile to grow on Shauna's lips, and with how close she sat next to you, it wasn't difficult to detect the subtle quiver in them. "Don't laugh at me again," you immediately uttered, upon noticing her poor attempt at hiding her amusement, and when the curve of her mouth heightened into a closed grin, you rolled your eyes and glanced away from her to mindlessly stare at Mrs. Fletcher, who sat at the library's front desk and typed away angrily at the blocky computer in front of her. 

"Maybe I'd like it more if I could actually relate to it," you defended quietly, before you shifted your focus back towards the bookworm and tilted your head to the side. "I wouldn't say I'm the type of demographic that would organically read something like Mansfield Park," you paused and sent her an apologetic stare, "no offense."

She didn't seem offended by your words, though. She only hummed in silent understanding, before she leaned forward and set the book down onto the wooden surface of the table in front of the two of you. "That's why I've never read this one," she told you, as you watched her slide her hand away from the cover and slowly settle back into the uncomfortable backing of the wooden chair. Your eyebrow rose in ignorance, clearly not grasping what she was attempting to imply by her vague comment, but you lacked the brain power to directly inquire. 

Especially when she moved her head to look at you and sent you a lopsided smile, "Pride and Prejudice is good," she admitted, which piqued your interest, "and if you like poetry, there is Emily Dickinson." She shrugged, giving you different ideas, but you found yourself mindlessly shaking your head, set in your ways, before you lifted your arm and rested your elbow over the top of your seat, as you grasped the wrist that limply hung down with the fingers of your other hand.

You stared at Shauna silently, and when her own gaze remained unwavering from your own, as she admired your features and the color of your eyes, you felt the corners of your lips lift up into a loving smile. There was something oddly domestic about sitting in the library with someone you had an unlabeled, but undeniably intimate relationship with. You understood her, and she understood you, and it was nice, and it was comfortable... and it didn't make you feel like you had to act like someone you weren't. 

You had always been a recluse, someone who didn't often like to converse with people, and although she pulled you out of your shell – if only slightly – she didn't attempt to change you. You didn't try to change her, either. You liked her for who she was. Both bad and good. Maybe that wasn't something two supposed 'best friends' were supposed to feel towards one another, but you and her did anyway, and it felt natural and fine. You didn't see a problem with it, and neither did she.

It only encouraged you to speak up, and you allowed your words to float into the air without any sort of restraint, or care on how they may have come across to her own ears. "I'll just write a book," you mumbled softly after a moment, as your eyes flickered down to her mouth, using your pause to admire the person before you, "about us." You twisted your lips in contemplation, "That's something I'd read."

Shauna let out a quiet giggle at your words, but it wasn't done in a way to make fun of you. If anything, she agreed, and you smiled brighter when she inevitably nodded her head in affirmation and nudged her knee against your own affectionately. "We'll do it together," she told you, “once we get out of this town.” 

You huffed softly, feeling endeared at her tone of determination, as well as her desire to hightail it out of Wiskayok, and you bowed your chin in agreement, all while you felt your heart flutter in your chest. "Deal," you hummed out. You sent her a soft smile in that same moment, and there was a certain air of affection that consumed the atmosphere between the two of you, as you thoughtfully stared into her brown eyes.

And just like earlier, you found yourself getting lost in them.

As always, if you guys have any ideas for another one shot or headcanon or whatever, let me know! I'm in need of some ideas!

[delphinidin4]

I just had a brainwave about Mansfield Park. This might be something that Jane Austen fans already know and think is obvious, but I've never heard it discussed, and I think it really clears up a lot of things about this book for me.

So scholars are always talking about how this book intersects with slavery. First of all, the Antigua property that isn't doing so well would have been worked by enslaved people (keeping slaves was still legal in Antigua, though selling them there was not). Also, at one point Fanny asks Sir Thomas a question about the slave trade, though it isn't really elaborated on. I saw this discussed again and again in the (admittedly little) scholarship I read on this book, and it always seemed weird to me that they zeroed in on that detail.

More recently, I read Margaret Doody's book on the names Austen used in her work, and she pointed out that the famous legal case that declared slavery to be illegal in England was called the Mansfield Decision. Any reader at the time, reading that novel, would have that information in the back of their head, and it would have informed how they read the book.

This much I knew. But I always felt like these arguments never really explained what slavery had to do with the love story of Fanny Price: even Doody never seemed to connect this factoid about the title very deeply with the novel's themes (a problem I had with a number of her discussions in that book).

More recently, I saw it pointed out that Fanny Price is treated like a slave by Mrs. Norris, and I thought, "Aha! Finally, an explanation!" But it still didn't feel complete to me.

But I just realized: you can take that metaphor a lot farther. (For this argument, please keep in mind that Austen, though on the side of the abolitionists, was a 19th-century woman who didn't have the same sensibilities about the discussion of race as we do now.)

--Like an enslaved person, Fanny is taken from her home and her family and moved far, far away (she isn't kidnapped, of course, but stick with me).

--The family that she joins considers her to be naturally stupider than they are because she has not had the advantage of their education. This is similar to African slaves, whom white people looked down on and thought intellectually inferior because they didn't have a western education.

--The term "family" at the time included the household servants and slaves, not just the actual family. Fanny, the poor relation, joins the household less like a cousin/niece, and more like a servant or an enslaved person. She is literally relegated to sleep in an attic, like a maid.

--Fanny suffers a great deal emotionally because she misses her family (especially Edward). Austen, as an abolitionist, would likely have read accounts like Olaudah Equiano's autobiography, which often described the intense emotional suffering of enslaved people separated from their homes and families.

--One of the justifications slaveholders gave for slavery was that they were "improving" the lives of the Africans they enslaved, by teaching them Christianity and occasionally, trades or other forms of education. Fanny is ostensibly being brought to Mansfield to give her a good education. And while she does get that education, she really functions much more in the household like a servant to Lady Bertram and Mrs. Norris.

--Fanny IS taught a great deal of morality by Edmund, who is a bit of a prig. It seems hypocritical of him to be constantly "schooling" her in morality when it often seems like Fanny is more naturally ethical than he is. This mirrors the hypocrisy of white slaveholders who deigned to teach their slaves Christianity while acting extremely unchristian themselves.

--Fanny ends up with an inferiority complex because she is constantly torn down by Mrs. Norris and treated as inferior by Maria and Julia. In reality, she's very intelligent, well-read, and ethical in a way that none of them area. This mirrors the way black folks were unfairly treated as inferior by white society.

--The injustice of the Bertrams toward Fanny is so obvious to outsiders that even the morally deficient Crawfords are indignant about it. Mrs. Norris makes a snide remark to Fanny about "who and what she is" (a reference to racism?) and Mary Crawford is indignant on Fanny's behalf and rushes in to comfort her. Henry Crawford--at least, after he falls in love with Fanny--says that the way the family has treated her is disgraceful, and that he is going to show them how they should have been treating her all along. Austen may be pointing to the idea that slavery is SO wrong that it should be obvious to everybody.

I conclude that the book is titled Mansfield Park because Austen wants to point out that while slavery may be illegal in England, poor relations are still often treated like slaves by their families.

That being said, here are some questions this analogy throws up:

--Why is Sir Thomas so much nicer to Fanny after his stay in Antigua, where he would have been witnessing slavery on a daily basis? What does this say about him, both as an uncle and a slaveowner?

--Fanny goes home to Portsmouth, and finds that she doesn't like it and it isn't as neat and orderly as she would like. Is this Austen saying that if enslaved people went back to Africa, they would find that they still felt western society to be superior? How would we square that idea with the point above that westerners are not superior to Africans?

--Why does Fanny end up with Edmund? If he's analogous to the son of a slaveowner and she's analogous to a slave, why is she in love with him in the first place, and why does Austen seem to reify her choice by making them get together in the end? (Remember that even Austen's sister Cassandra felt strongly that Fanny should have ended up with Henry Crawford, not the priggish Edmund.) Is Fanny brainwashed by the Bertrams? How does that relate to the slaveholding analogy?

[odo-apologist]

Smegtober #13: Dreams

     Dave lies in his bunk, reading one of Krissy's leather hardcovers. It's not Austen this time, but still involves a Jane: Jane Eyre. He first read it while Krissy was still there, and they had talked about it over dinner. Well, over her dinner–this was before his hard-light drive. It was after Jane Austen, after Pride and Prejudice and Emma and Mansfield Park, that he had moved on to the Brontes. Then Hugo, Dumas, Dickens, Forster…Krissy had led the way and he'd followed. He can't exactly pinpoint when he started to enjoy it–or, rather, when it became habit.

     His habits before his death had been a can or five of lager and curry and Rastabilly Skank and comic books and horror movies. Never would he have envisioned a point where it was curling up with a book and opera and a single sensible glass of wine. Then again, he couldn't have predicted his future role in keeping the last human in the universe alive and sane and what that would entail, what he would have to give up in order to do so and do it well. Nor could he have known that those choices he made would bring him solace once she was gone.

     “Dave?” He jerks up from the page he's reading and nearly drops the book. Krissy stands in the doorway, dark hair down and jacket over one shoulder. She's in the same outfit she'd worn when she was ripped from her–his–universe into another, one where he was alive and well and unchanged from his former lifestyle. He's never noticed before how much the cherry red suits her.

     “Kris?” He's standing up now, approaching her. “How'd you come back? I-We thought we'd lost you, that we'd never see you again.”

     “I thought the same of you,” she responds. “But we were able to find another rift between our dimensions and get me back.” She clasps his hands and gives him one of her shining smiles. “Back to you. I missed you, Dave.”

     “Really?”

     “Of course I did.” Something seems to strike her at that moment, and she continues, “The other Dave, he wasn't at all like you.”

     She'd always been perceptive. “Well, he seemed like me before…before the accident,” He finishes somewhat lamely. Even now, he doesn't like to speak of his death, just as he doesn't like to dwell on Rimmer's. It hurt too much at first, and even now there's a dull ache.

    “Yes, but that's not you now, is it? He wasn't my Dave.” Her face darkens a bit. “I really did miss you, I thought of you all the time. I was scared that, since I was around, you'd be…” It's her turn to struggle finishing her thought. Her hands grip a bit tighter.

     “I'm still here, Krissy.” Then he blurts out, “I love you.”

     She looks a bit taken aback. “Are-are you sure? I still remember what you told me when we agreed to just be friends, and I don't want you to feel any sort of obligation–”

     “That isn't it, I promise.” Dave moves his hands up from Kris’ to gently hold her shoulders. His lightbee thrums. “While you were gone, I realized just how true it was.”

     Her eyes search his face, then soften before she pulls him into an embrace. “Dave,” she sighs in a hushed voice.

     “Krissy.” He pulls back, gaze flitting to her lips, as cherry red as her outfit. They're parted a bit, and he realizes that she's moving closer and so is he, closing the gap between them. He feels those lips against his…

     And he wakes up. Dave is alone in the bunkroom. He looks down from his bed, spots Jane Eyre on the floor where it must have fallen once he dozed off. Dave stares at it a moment before letting out a deep, weary sigh, then swings his legs from his bunk. He might as well go check on Kryten and Cat; he doesn't think he'll get any more rest now.

     A dimension away, Kochanski bangs out her frustration on the pipes. Between their racket and the dreams, it's a wonder she can get enough proper sleep to have the latter in the first place.

[whenthegoldrays]

Top 5 mansfield park characters haha (i would love to ask top 5 wives and daughters scenes too so do mention them I will skip it until I read the book but I can't just not ask you that 🙈)

AHAHAH thank you!!

top five Mansfield Park characters

Fanny 🧡

William

Susan

Edmund

Tom

top five w&d scenes!!! (so exciting)

Roger comforting Molly after her dad gets engaged (and taking her hand on the way back to the house!!!!!)

Lady Harriet working to clear Molly’s reputation, specifically when she walks around Hollingford with her!

The Easter ball in general. It’s fun. It’s funny. Molly shines. Cynthia’s mystery deepens. Perfection ✨

“You never vexed me in my whole life” AAAA

When Molly stays at the Towers and gets some time to rest and heal and talk to Roger again <3

[nerianasims]

I tried to read Mansfield Park again. Nope. Can't do it. I've already read it three or four times, I think that's enough. I don't like any of the characters until Mary Crawford shows up, and then I only like her (and not a ton) and the narrative keeps beating up on her. The writing style irritates me, while usually I am rolling around in Austen's words like I'm high on catnip. Mrs. Norris talks as much as Miss Bates but is evil and not funny like Mrs. Elton is. I'm supposed to feel bad for Sir Bertram about anything ever. And I'm supposed to feel bad for Fanny 100% of the time, poor Fanny, pity poor Fanny, poor poor Fanny ARGH.

Like yes. Fanny's situation sucks and then it sucks some more and then it continues sucking, everyone treats her like crap so you must pity her in her stoic quiet strength of character, look at her constantly being emotionally beaten up on and taking it humbly. This does not compel me.

I do mean everyone treats her like crap. (Mary's the least bad, but I don't think Henry ever sees her as a real person.) Edmund is no better and also their relationship gives me ye olde squicke. Not because they're cousins, but because he immediately takes a caregiving role -- one that no one else does, just to make it more icky. An age gap is not an issue at all for me, except in pretty much the exact circumstances between Fanny and goddamn Edmund. I am not calling "problematic!" or anything, and if other people like it that's fine, but I personally hate it. Doesn't help that I hate him anyway.

[bethanydelleman]

I find Mansfield Park unbearably depressing because I hate Edmund so much. I ship Fanny with Mary Crawford, but really ANYONE to get her out of there and definitely away from Edmund! The first time I read the book decades ago, I was hoping she'd go off with that nice young surgeon, but alas. And really, I think Mary would be a perfect "reformed rake" type for Fanny. She's much more thoughtful than Henry, and she sees Fanny's worth first.

I think one of the reasons that I'm obsessed with Mansfield Park is because the ending is unsatisfying (but then again, I find Emma dissatisfying too and I'm not obsessed...) I sometimes wish Jane Austen had just written a few more chapters to show us, and not just tell us, that Edmund and Fanny would be a good match. I have a hard time seeing it.

I know that her ending is probably the most realistic one, given the era and her situation in life, but I just want her out of Mansfield. They were so horrible to her and I have a hard time really believing it has changed. It also makes me sad that the Crawfords didn't change. You really feel that they could have, it's sad that they failed.

[astrangergivingthestrangewelcome]

Man I'm still thinking about Mansfield Park 1999... like I do understand some of the criticisms of it but as a story itself it's excellent and even as a adaptation while it falls short in some key moments, in others the choices it makes elevate the original text, imho. Let me try to get my thoughts together on it

TL;DR While they missed the mark on some book characterizations the intelligence with which they approach slavery as well as women's rights far outshines this movie's faults to me. I would recommend it to anyone. 9/10.

I do agree that their characterization of Fanny was off + while I liked movie Fanny and didn't find her to be so far off center as to be 1000% unrecognizable... yeah I wish they'd been better about making her quieter. The moment when she says no to Sir Thomas should be this big thing, because Fanny never sticks up for herself, and here she's been getting in her comments all along, so it cheapens the moment. It's the Lizzie Bennet syndrome, but it's not the worst case that I've ever seen. She is still shown to be disposed to shyness and prone to accept her place in the household as an unequal with a sad sort of resignation... but I wish they'd done it a little better

I also hated the yes and then no to Henry Crawford. Wish they didn't do it. I fully thought watching it that it was a dream sequence + then she woke up in bed I thought it was confirmed and then was so confused when she once again rejected him... it was unnecessary. Any temptation that Fanny has to marry him in the books is more of "I'm immediately suspicious of someone showing interest in me because nobody shows interest in me and I don't trust my gut about him, but everyone in my family has been making my life a living hell about this man + he himself is trying to show me he's changed so now I'm wondering if he's in earnest and it's getting to the point I'm getting worn down and am in danger of breaking" NOT "oooooh I'm undecided" 👎👎 Bad choice

I fully acknowledge that movie Edmund is not really book Edmund but... I hate Edmund in the book, and I didn't mind the fact that when I watched this movie I actually liked him and wanted them to be together. I will say that I have seen some criticism on here saying that the movie portrays him as never in love with Mary and only pursuing her to please his father and I don't think that's true. While it's clear that Fanny is more consistently in his thoughts in the movie than in the book, I read it as a situation where he's into Fanny but he's telling himself he's not because he's been raised to think of her as his sister (and is in fact her 1st cousin...) and this is just the relationship they've always enjoyed. When he meets Mary, I think the consideration that she's a more acceptable match to his father is certainly turning in the back of his mind, but I don't think that's the only thing fueling his actions. I do think he is shown to be in love with her- while there are glimpses of affection towards Fanny, he is not egregiously moping after her while having Mary on his arm. When he rejects Mary at the end Johnny Lee Miller's performance highlights the fact that he really did think she was a different person and he really was heartbroken when he realized that she was exactly who she said she was (I did have to LOL at this, as I did in the book bc like. Edmund. She was very clear about who she was. She never lied to you, you were always the one lying to yourself from day one, but I digress. In fairness he was also clear about who he was to Mary from day one, they each had mutual delusions about being able to fix the other). His affections for both women were genuine, he only considered himself as pursuing Mary however, and persuaded himself that he felt only familial love for Fanny.

I gather that some people feel offended that they make slavery such a big thing in this movie and explicitly tying Sir Thomas into racial & sexual violence... sorry I guess, but I think it's brilliant and intelligent. I also think that this is perfectly in line with the book, just taking it up 10 notches. Now, I don't really know anything about Jane Austen's life or what she believed in, but at same time, she made the choice when she wrote the novel to explicitly tie the family's fortune to Antigua. None of her other rich people have fortunes in the Caribbean. It's silly to pretend like she wouldn't know that having a plantation in Antigua means slavery. This was a talking point in British society in her time period. And we are so clearly supposed to read the Bertram's critically. Jane Austen is never explicit, but I don't think it goes against the novel to tie slavery into her criticism of British society.

And the people that just don't want to think of the Bertrams as enslavers... tough. Sir Thomas is an enslaver. Tom's sketchbook scene elevates the story greatly. It's not only the truth of the situation it's also very connected to the emotional core of the film to me- both Edmund and Fanny are trying to hold on to a sense of integrity in a world that seems determined to take it from them. I think that this is very true of the novel- but the movie (rightfully in my opinion) downplays things that simply would not resonate with modern audiences (like the whole oooh racy theater is morally wrong) and highlights slavery. And I might add that they do this very artfully. There are no grand speeches- when Mary is making her plans at the end and hoping that Tom dies so Edmund gets the inheritance, the movie does not need to spell out what a trap that wealth is. The suggestion that Tom ne'er-do-well nature is born from a deep disgust for the horrors he's seen in Antigua and specifically the side of his father he's seen in Antigua (things the "good son" Edmund has been sheltered from by the sheer luck of being born a second son) is an excellent take in my opinion and the movie adds this weight to the story in very few scenes.

Neither does the movie try and give you false answers either. Whatever disgust Tom feels... it hasn't made him an abolitionist. Whatever shame Sir Thomas feels... It's not enough. He doesn't renounce that wealth. No one does. Edmund and Fanny are just lucky enough to be in a situation where they can carve out a space for themselves in society where they can enjoy the trickle down effect of imperialism without actually having to be on the plantation enforcing that violence. From beginning to end the wealth that sustains the Bertram family is built on moral corruption of the highest degree and the movie does not shy away from that and neither does it fix it, which I think is commendable, and very real to the lived experience of people at an imperial core.

I feel the same way about the trap that Fanny is trying to dance around. There are no easy answers. Her mother married for love and is impoverished and miserable. Her cousin married for money and is deeply unfulfilled and miserable. Neither of them can get out. They're not financially independent. In her position how can she stay single for forever? She's just trying to keep her integrity and through luck she is able to, but I don't think the movie tries to push easy answers about the situation that the other women in this story are in.

[grandhotelabyss]

Any thoughts on Byatt, on the occasion of her passing?

I read Possession one summer when I was in college and thought it was extraordinary. (Intimidatingly so, which may be why I never read another of her novels, though Possession is generally said to be her best.) I need to read it again. I can't believe it never came back into fashion with the dark academia trend. Maybe it's too brainy, or maybe it's that the (mostly) heterosexual romance lacks yaoi potential à la Dorian Gray, Maurice, and Brideshead Revisited. For anyone unfamiliar, Possession is about two late-20th-century British academics investigating the lives of two fictional Victorian poets (one loosely based on Robert Browning, the other on Christina Rossetti), and both pairs' possible love affairs with one another. Byatt narrates in a sprightly comic style with no little lyric potential, derived, I now see, from her great models George Eliot and Iris Murdoch, but she also parodies every other kind of relevant style with Joycean or Nabokovian aplomb, giving us jargony feminist essays, image-jeweled Victorian fairy tales, fulsome 19th-century correspondence, jagged Browningesque dramatic monologues, dreamy Pre-Raphaelite ballads, and more. The climatic vindication of writing and reading as almost prophetic activities, this against the reductively ideological approach of the Theory era Byatt was writing within and against, should be carved above the lintel of whatever English departments remain:

There are readings—of the same text—that are dutiful, readings that map and dissect, readings that hear a rustling of unheard sounds, that count grey little pronouns for pleasure or instruction and for a time do not hear golden or apples. There are personal readings, which snatch for personal meanings, I am full of love, or disgust, or fear, I scan for love, or disgust, or fear. There are—believe it—impersonal readings—where the mind's eye sees the lines move onwards and the mind's ear hears them sing and sing.

Now and then there are readings that make the hairs on the neck, the non-existent pelt, stand on end and tremble, when every word burns and shines hard and clear and infinite and exact, like stones of fire, like points of stars in the dark—readings when the knowledge that we shall know the writing differently or better or satisfactorily, runs ahead of any capacity to say what we know, or how. In these readings, a sense that the text has appeared to be wholly new, never before seen, is followed, almost immediately, by the sense that it was always there, that we the readers, knew it was always there, and have always known it was as it was, though we have now for the first time recognised, become fully cognisant of, our knowledge.

I was pleased to see a long story by Byatt, "The Thing in the Forest," in the Norton Introduction to Literature, which I used the one time I taught the class of that name, in the ill-fated spring semester of 2020. If you've never read Byatt, this story or novelette is a good place to start. It does a lot of what Possession does in miniature, synthesizing witty metafiction, aestheticized fantasy, and moving historical reality into a work of the latter-day Romantic imagination.

I also want to recommend Imagining Characters, an under-discussed book of conversations between Byatt and the Brazilian psychoanalyst Ignês Sodré about six novels: Mansfield Park, Villette, Daniel Deronda, The Professor's House, An Unofficial Rose, and Beloved. (I've still never read that Murdoch, I confess.) This book is probably why I think of Mansfield Park, Villette, and Daniel Deronda as forming a loose trilogy of 19th-century "problem novels" (like Shakespeare's "problem plays") that challenge any cheap 20th-century talk about the complacency, sentimentalism, meliorism, or all-around naiveté of "bourgeois realism." Plus Sodré and Byatt are superb readers, and it's a pleasure to "listen" to them in conversation.

The Paris Review unpaywalled their interview with Byatt today. I'd never read it before. She says much of interest; she even criticizes Kazuo Ishiguro in the same terms as I have, for writing international literature by subtracting specificity, though she later praises The Unconsoled for its insight into the psychology of the artist. She seems ambivalent about realism, constantly invoking fairy tales, even saying this about Murdoch—

I think Iris learned a great deal from the French surrealists, and then somehow went and sat in Oxford and became a slightly less interesting novelist than she would have been if she had stayed in contact with the world of Beckett and Queneau—she would never have gone into Sarraute-like writings. I think she developed a theory about the virtues of Jane Austen that wasn’t all that good for her.

—and this about herself:

If you asked me what I wish I’d written, I would say Borges’s “Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote.” That is a completely pointless postmodernist structure of total beauty that nevertheless has a profound point.

The interviewer notes her nonconformist heritage, what links her to George Eliot as well as to Lawrence and to Leavis. She acknowledges it, but notes as well another way, even within the deep English Protestant imagination:

There’s a Spenserian aspect of Milton that I love. It’s the exotic. It’s the extraordinary metaphors. It’s the luscious sensuousness of him. It isn’t the stern puritan. I think I made something of Spenser that was the presence of stories about unreal things in a serious, real world.

"The Last Spenserian." There are worse epitaphs. Now I just need to read more of her novels.

[gcantread]

September 2024 reads

[loved liked ok nope dnf bookclub*]

Agnes Grey • The Empire Wars • Vita Nostra • 17776: What Football Will Look Like in the Future • Somewhere Beyond the Sea • A Sorceress Comes to Call • Tress of the Emerald Sea • Long Live Evil • Books Do Furnish a Room • A Sunny Place for Shady People • Mansfield Park* • The Butcher of the Forest

I read 12 books in September, though several were short (and one was a... multimedia experience? What are we calling 17776 anyway?) I've been feeling a little burnt out on ARCs and @bellasbookclub -screening reads, so after the first week I took a break from those. Just as well, because I was once again abruptly drowning in new releases! Luckily only four library holds were ready at once this month. Have I learned my lesson about hold requests? Not at all.

Agnes Grey ★★★☆☆ - I enjoyed the semi-autobiographical "being a governess SUCKS" parts of this book (that bird scene holy shit), but I think I would have liked it better with a less milquetoast love interest.

The Empire Wars ★☆☆☆☆ - Oooooof. I thought there was no way any of the books in my self-imposed Bombed Books Week Challenge could be worse/less enjoyable than Hurricane Wars and TGUWG, but this one took the cake. There's "I wrote this at age 15" (impressive) and then there's "I wrote this at age 15" (and it shows/and I can't believe multiple literate adults in the publishing industry greenlit it.) "Hazen Creed" is the new Xylen Rayder or whatever the 4th w!ng guy's name is

Vita Nostra ★★★★☆ - I was promised weird shit and this book delivered! You don't get it? Good news, nobody gets it, we're literally just vibing

17776: What Football Will Look Like in the Future ★★★★☆ - Some interesting themes and a lot of fun! (I liked when it started zooming in on Denver and I was like wait a fucking second is that Ball Arena??)

Somewhere Beyond the Sea ★☆☆☆☆ - Yeah, I can't lie, this was a hateread. No other series makes me feel more like the child in "The Emperor's New Clothes." Like, people enjoy this?? Adults?? Adults think this is good storytelling??? I'm not even trying to be mean (well, maybe a little), I'm genuinely baffled. Remember when I described Book 1 as "like driving behind a Coexist bumper sticker for several hours"? Book 2 is like driving behind a Coexist bumper sticker while also listening to someone read you the worst parts of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix but in Kindergarten Teacher Voice, and for even more hours. Lesson learned: I have got to stop picking these up imagining I'll somehow see the appeal this time.

A Sorceress Comes to Call ★★★★★ - My first ever T. Kingfisher! I've always been hesitant to believe the hype, but to my pleasant surprise, this one was fantastic. The stakes, the characters, the evil fucking horse had me on the edge of my seat. Pretty crazy when the interior of a book lives up to its gorgeous cover. Had to rush out and buy this one from my local bookstore!

Tress of the Emerald Sea ★★★★☆ - Fun and cute! The main draw is definitely the silly writing style.

Long Live Evil ★★★★☆ - Took its time to get going, but the second half really gained momentum. This book's main flaw is that it isn't In Other Lands, but it's nevertheless nice to see SRB cut loose and write a silly isekai/harem trope pastiche that is somehow also a thoughtful cancer survivor catharsis.

Books Do Furnish a Room ★★★☆☆ - When I picked up this coffee table book at the library on a whim, nothing could have prepared me for its Caricature Of British Aristocracy tone. Like at one point this author calls Africa "a country." Seriously, they do not edit the text of these things. Pretty pictures, though.

A Sunny Place for Shady People ★★★★☆ - I'll read Mariana Enriquez's grocery list. On the whole, Sunny Place wasn't as gripping as Our Share of Night, but some of its individual stories (it's an anthology) stood out—I loved the nuance of My Sad Dead and the nightmare fuel of Black Eyes! Some choice body horror in here.

Mansfield Park ★★★☆☆ - A reread for Bella's Book Club's September discussion! I think I liked it better this time around? I definitely noticed more of the character arcs. I like that this is lowkey the messiest Austen. [Community episode voice] now THIS is a man who KNOWS HOW TO MARRY HIS COUSIN

The Butcher of the Forest ★★★★☆ - I'm slowly working my way through Tordotcom novellas and so far they all slap. This one had such an interesting ending, ngl I'm having to quash the Fanfic Urge about it!

DNFs: None, but boy would I have dropped The Empire Wars like a hot potsticker on about page 2 if it wasn't the last (or second-to-last, if you count control group Crown of Starlight) book in my own challenge.

September superlatives

tbh a lot of these books could swap spots with each other. I'll definitely be rereading Sorceress, and probably LLE when the next book in its series comes out!

Next up:

I still haven't gotten around to Crown of Starlight, so it looks like I'll be finishing up my Bombed Books Week Challenge in October. Nor have I gotten to my ARCs of Ruin Road or Sundown in San Ojuela, so those are both on this month's agenda. My current read is A Dark and Drowning Tide (I seem to be the one reader on the planet who didn't much like A Far Wilder Magic, but I like to give authors a second chance, and that cover + the fact that they're lesbians, Harold got to me.) I'd love to squeeze in a King in Yellow reread if possible, and our Bella's Book Club pick this month is Murder on the Orient Express, so...perfect October rereads? I'm kinda stoked!

previous months:

july august

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Suppose 'The King in Yellow' exists in the world of twilight. Which cullen reads the play?

The King in Yellow for those unfamiliar with it, is a fictional play within a set of short stories that's eldritch before there was even eldritch.

Boringly and sadly, anon, none of them. That in itself would be a story as whoever reads more than the first act is driven mad. The Cullens are a lot of things but they're functioning, they teeter on the brink of madness (at least Edward certainly does) but they never quite fall off the edge.

I can list off the Cullens who've never heard of it and have no interest and those who are... tempted...

Alice

Has no interest in it/has never heard of it. Edward's talked about it here and there but Alice isn't what you'd call an intellectual or someone with any interest in reading weird plays that sound cerebral and boring.

Bella

Bella's heard of it but never read it and only vaguely knows what it's about. She feels like it's one of those things she always ought to read but it's not her genre so she always mumbles away excuses on why she hasn't read it yet. "I'll get around to it someday," Bella says without really meaning it and knowing she'll read Mansfield Park again.

This is even worse when she's a vampire as she has 'infinite' time to get anything done so she never actually sits down to read new things.

Carlisle

Oh, he's heard of it and it terrifies him. He's actually read all of act 1 and found it, as everyone described, banal, not that interesting, and very benign. He's always been tempted to start the second act but fear has stayed his hand and so far he has never done it.

Edward

Edward didn't even start the play. He's so terrified of what it might do to him, what truths it could possibly reveal, that he hasn't even read the first act that Carlisle assures him was quite normal and certainly not madness inducing. Edward's so terrified that a part of him believes even to look on the cover would drive him past the point of no return.

However, he has explicitly kept it on his bookshelf as both a point of pride (he hasn't gone mad yet) and a temptation he can't even explain to himself.

All it would take is for him to reach over, flip open its cover, and...

Emmett

He frequently gets it confused with Waiting for Godot. Because of this, he'll insist that he watched it and can see why it drove people utterly mad out of sheer boredom. When someone points out that was Waiting for Godot he tries to figure out what The King in Yellow is but ultimately forgets and thinks it's Waiting for Godot again.

Esme

Esme's heard of it but has little interest in it and isn't sure why anyone would want to read a play that would drive them mad. Seems like a silly thing to do when you can always not read the play and not be mad.

Because of this, she doesn't understand how the play would tempt anybody and thinks it's on Edward's shelf as a kind of strange decoration.

Jasper

Jasper has heard of it but has no interest in it. That sort of intellectual nonsense isn't his thing. Like Esme, he doesn't know how a play would drive you mad or why you would read if it drives you mad.

He suspects one day Edward will give in and read it though. He's not looking forward to that fallout.

Renesmee

Somehow, the play ends up on Renesmee's bookshelf and because she has 0 supervision despite being watched by Jacob all the time she has no idea how dangerous of a play it is and that it may very well drive her mad.

She probably ends up reading it one day and the entire family doesn't notice she's been driven utterly mad.

Rosalie

She's heard of it but has no interest in it. She despairs of Emmett not knowing what it is but considers herself cultured enough in at least knowing generally what it's about. She's mildly curious why it would drive people mad but not enough to do anything about it.

[kiss-me-over-the-garden-gate]

recently got a copy of mansfield park for christmas and plan to give it a reread. we had to read it in high school, and I remember our teacher Mr. Hammond (always wore suits and had neatly combed pure white hair with a goatee) talking about how insipid the main character Fanny Price was and how all she did was cry

which I found pretty embarrassing bc I could relate to her SOOO heavily. it felt like a shameful secret to feel that way. she was unrequitedly in love with someone who loved someone else, and at the time, I had a huge crush on this guy who was obsessed with and briefly dated one of my "closest" friends. and she was in a household that alternated between overlooking and berating her and she didn't really "belong" anywhere. which was certainly true of me at the time.

nowadays I relate more heavily to other Austen characters like Emma Woodhouse and Elizabeth Bennett, and I've felt the struggles of Anne Elliot too. but Fanny will always be the Austen character I related to first, and though I never expect to feel exactly like her again, I guess she's dear to me for that. it will be interesting to see what rereading mansfield park is like over a decade after my liberation from that situation.